Showing posts with label Winston Mankunku Ngozi. Show all posts
Showing posts with label Winston Mankunku Ngozi. Show all posts

Thursday, 14 November 2013

Hidden South African Jazz archive comes to life

Tonight at a public lecture in the City of York there will be a live performance of four South African jazz compositions found in the Ian Bruce Huntley archive. The "original" Ian Huntley recordings are shared here today in celebration of the great work that Jonathan Eato and students at the Department of Music at the University of York are doing in bringing Ian's archive alive in a most positive manner. Jazz legend Louis Moholo-Moholo will be there tonight, participating in the celebration.

Jonathan is talking to an interested audience about the Ian Bruce Huntley archive, showing some of the pictures, and to illustrate some of the material found in the audio archive, he
Ronnie Beer: Pic © Ian Huntley
has taken the trouble to transcribe the music and give "the dots" as he calls the sheet music, to four students who will be performing compositions by Tete Mbambisa (Leads Dwana); Ronnie Beer (Immediately); Ebrahim Kalil Shihab aka Chris Schilder (Look Up ) and Winston Mankunku Ngozi (Ekhaya).


In writing to me about the planned event tonight, and the process leading up to it, Jonathan had the following to say:

"Obviously this couldn't have happened without Ian's recordings. They (the students) will play them as part of the Merchant Adventurer talk .... And what's great is that Mpumi Moholo and Louis Moholo-Moholo will be there (although this is making the drummer both very nervous and very excited). I wonder if these compositions have ever been played outside South Africa?

"When they're tidied up I'll send the dots through for Ian (if that's of interest to him...). In listening to this music in detail so I could transcribe it for the students the interesting thing to me is that although improvisation over blues sequences are ubiquitous in jam sessions and gigs with impromptu bands, 'Immediately', 'Leads Dwana' and 'Look Up' all do this in unusual ways. Probing and exploring the form in one way or another.

"The head for 'Look Up' is thirteen bars (the usual 12 with a sort of one bar hiatus added to the end), whereas 'Immediately' has an extra two beats added to bars 4 and 12 - which also gives a total length of 13 bars but with the elongations split up and spread throughout the head, if that makes sense. 'Leads Dwana' is really doing my head in - it's heavily modal but I think I'm going to have to do more work on trying to understand how it works (or perhaps hope that Tete will explain it to me - assuming we can find a language that makes sense to both of us). Anyways it's a 32 bar modal head which covers the main harmonic centres of a typical jazz blues without using the form, or the bebop language prevalent in modern jazz blues.

"Of course these musicians were aware of Miles Davis' work etc. (hence 'Milestones' etc featuring so often in the IBH recordings) - and even though Davis recorded that in 1958, Herbie Hancock's 'Maiden Voyage' (the other great landmark of modal jazz) wasn't recorded until a year *after* Barney Rachabane, Ronnie Beer, Dennis Mpale, Tete Mbambisa, Max Dayimani and Sammy Maritz recorded 'Leads Dwana' in the studios at Thibault Square."

Jackie, Philly and Chris Schilder
Pic © Ian Huntley
 
I hope the musically technical stuff made sense to some of you, I just nod my head and happily accept that I can still love and appreciate the music without really understanding the intricacies of how it is constructed.
 
Ian's recordings are believed to be the first or earliest recordings of all of these compositions - and as Jonathan wonders aloud, have they even been played outside of South Africa - before tonight? By my amateur reckoning, I do believe, Ronnie Beer's "Immediately" has the greatest chance of having been  performed in Europe while Beer was there playing with Chris McGregor and the Blue Notes. 

In addition to the two versions of "Immediately" already shared on this blog (The Thibault Square recording at 7:55) here and (Room At the Top) a 15 min 46sec take here  - we are sharing two more versions. A 9:52 take, from another fine performance by Mpale, Rachabane, Mbambisa, Beer, Mgijima and Dayimani at the Room at the Top - at the end of which you can hear one of the band members commenting about Max Dayimani "hitting the drums". The second take is a 13min 55sec version, also performed by the same members at the Room At The Top in 1964.
 
"Look Up" features on the 1968 vinyl holy grail - Chris Schilder Quintet's "Spring". The 3:35 version also features on Volume 3 of the great Strut Next Stop Soweto Compilation issued in 2010. The 1966 version of Spring recorded by Ian in District Six, Cape Town stretches to close on eight minutes performed by a Schilder family trio.

Tete Mbambisa's  Leads Dwana also deserves to be heard internationally, and perhaps it has been already. Who knows? Here, the Jazz Disciples - with Sammy Maritz on bass - provide a swinging eight-minute rendition.

The recording of Ekhaya is unlikely to have been performed and is not widely known. The recording shared here today was not a public performance and is not of the best sound quality, but those who recognize its importance will forgive that.

The musicians playing the four compositions at the live gig tonight are: Will Edwards (drums), Twm Dylan (bass), Joe McGrail (piano), Ben Turner (alto saxophone).


In his talk, Jonathan will be outlining the thesis he puts forward in his essay contained in the book "Keeping Time". Thank you to all of you who have pre-ordered the book - and for your kind and encouraging words. For those of you who have not yet reserved your copy - it might be a good idea. Click on the picture of the book on the side-bar - it will give you an e-mail address. Send me an e-mail requesting a copy, and I will send you further details.
 
 
1. Look Up  (7:59) (Chris Schilder): Chris Schilder (piano), Philly Schilder (bass), Jackie Schilder (drums) - recorded at the Moses House, Smart Street, District Six ~1966.
 
2. Ekhaya (7:35) (Winston Mankunku Ngozi) Winston Mankunku Ngozi (tenor), Ebrahim Kalil Shihab (Chris Schilder) (Piano), Midge Pike (Bass), Selwyn Lissack (Drums). Recorded at a practice session at Selwyn Lissack's Bantry Bay garage studio - 1966.
 
3. Immediately (Ronnie Beer) ver a (9:52) Dennis Mpale (trumpet), Barney Rachabane (alto), Ronnie Beer (tenor), Tete Mbambisa (piano), Martin Mgijima (bass), Max Dayimani (drums). Performed at the Room at the Top, Strand Street, Cape Town 1964.
 
4. Immediately (Ronnie Beer) ver b (13:55) Dennis Mpale (trumpet), Barney Rachabane (alto), Ronnie Beer (tenor), Tete Mbambisa (piano), Martin Mgijima (bass), Max Dayimani (drums). Performed at the Room at the Top, Strand Street, Cape Town 1964.
 
5. Leads Dwana  (11:32) (Tete Mbambisa) Dennis Mpale (trumpet), Barney Rachabane (alto), Ronnie Beer (tenor), Tete Mbambisa (piano), Martin Mgijima (bass), Max Dayimani (drums). Performed at the Room at the Top, Strand Street, Cape Town 1964.
 
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Monday, 4 November 2013

More Mankunku from Ian Bruce Huntley's archive


Winston Mankunku Ngozi - Morris Goldberg in background. Pic: Ian Bruce Huntley

It is a matter of a month or two before Electric Jive visitors will have full open access to the more than 56 hours of music recorded by Ian Bruce Huntley - and also be able to see many of the pictures featured in "Keeping Time", the limited edition book that will become available later this month.

The books, printed in Hong Kong, were loaded on a ship two days ago and are expected in the UK on 2nd December, and in Durban on 24th November. Siemon Allen in the USA will be receiving 50 copies via courier this week (holding thumbs Siemon).  There are 500 copies printed - we will soon provide details on costs and ordering.

The photo of Winston Mankunku Ngozi you see featured above is the only one in Ian's book that has not been digitally restored - while the scratching is particularly bad, it is also a kind of a nod from Siemon Allen (who put the book's great layout together) to the wonderful mood of the picture, and also to Cedric Nunn - who put many many hours into digitally repairing all the other images featured.

Keeping Time contains a substantial and fascinating essay by Jonathan Eato, the University of York-based composer and musician who worked with Bra Tete Mbambisa in releasing his solo piano work, "Black Heroes".

Jonathan describes in his essay how Ian set up the recording equipment on stages - when there was electricity available.

"Huntley would set up four microphones and use their proximity to the instruments to create a balanced ‘mix’. Relatively few of the photographs show Huntley’s microphone placement, but listening to the recordings one is struck by the clarity of the sound. As the pianos used in the various venues were all uprights, Huntley would place one microphone behind the instrument to pick up sound directly from the soundboard, with a second microphone placed near the drums. Huntley also reports experimenting with a piece of foam that had a hole cut in the middle to hold his third microphone. This enabled the microphone to be wedged into the bridge of the bass, accounting for the high quality bass response on the recordings (a level of fidelity which was probably not available to either the musicians or audiences at the time of the performance). Another of Huntley’s techniques was to put the fourth microphone inside a lampshade, which then acted as an improvised parabolic reflector to gather the overall sound of the horns. Once the microphones were in place, Huntley would be free to leave the tape running – until the tape ran out at least – whilst he attended to his camerawork." 

Jonathan then goes on to describe how the musicians would gather in Ian's flat to carefully listen to their recordings, coming to one of many interesting conclusions:

"Although one can only speculate at this point, it is not inconceivable that Huntley’s recordings were instrumental in contributing to the practice of modern jazz in South Africa. A pianist enabled to hear a walking bass line with clarity – even if not in the immediacy of performance – might well be further encouraged to explore the rootless left hand voicings they heard on records by Bud Powell, Bill Evans and others pioneering the practice in the U.S."

In keeping with the spirit of Ian's work, Jonathan's full essay will become available as an open access document - but not before the book comes out.

So - in all-round celebration, herewith nearly two hours (240mb) of some more gems from the archive - which Ian's records say were recorded at the Art Centre on 29th September 1966.

Art Centre (September 1966)

Tape 33
11 tracks at 1:54:21
Art Centre, Green Point Common, Cape Town.

Winston Mankunku Ngozi (tenor), Chris Schilder (piano), Midge Pike1 (bass), Selwyn Lissack (drums), unidentified2 (trumpet), Merton Barrow (vibes)3, Morris Goldberg4 (tenor).

1. Blues for Gary Peacock (7:14)
2. Summertime (George Gershwin) (11:16)
3. Woody ‘n’ You (Dizzy Gillespie) (8:54)
4. Nardis (Miles Davis) (7:13)2
5. Majong (Wayne Shorter) (13:40)
6. Love for Sale (Cole Porter) (16:02)
7. Well You Needn’t (Monk) (15:11)
8. Bessies Blues (John Coltrane) (8:42)
9. You Would Be So Nice To Come Home To (Cole Porter) [bass solo1] (4:15)
10. Misty (Erroll Garner) (11:04)
11. Groovy Blues (10:46)3 & 4

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Thursday, 24 January 2013

Free Jazz Experiments at Selwyn's Room (1966)

Selwyn Lissack - back in the day.
Picture by Ian Bruce Huntley
In a 1985 interview Sheila Wallis asks Winston Mankunku Ngozi about the mid 1960s: "Do you remember Selwyn Lissack? He said you used to have great jam sessions together at a house in Bantry Bay". Winston: "Ooh boy, we had a quartet, a beautiful group, those guys were really together. Selwyn on drums, Chris Schilder, Midge Pike, and at times with Merton Barrow. We would rehearse the whole night, play, play, play and play. We were doing the Art Centre then. I met a friend who was really into music - Ian Huntley. He had a lot of records, a photographer, a beautiful guy, he was in love with musicians. He bought me another saxophone."  (April 1985 edition of 'Think Jazz').

In talking to Selwyn Lissack this week, he emphasised the important and generous role played by Ian: "Ian, played a very important part in my comprehension of how to approach playing Jazz. I would go to Ian’s flat to listen to the tapes after a concert. They say the tapes never lie and this was a perfect way to learn and understand the music of that time." (see below for more).

Another gift that Ian gave to us all was to keep and preserve these recordings and share them with us now. In this previously unreleased fascinating ninety-minute experimental session Chris Schilder and Selwyn Lissack stand-out most often in their technically tight exploratory forays. Winston Manunku delights and surprises more in the second half.
 
In listening for the first time I had the experience of being seized in recognising snippets of music, and then being taken for a compelling diversionary ride, gripped in waiting to hear what comes next, and then occasionlly being brought back to familiar territory that I could not quite identify. The more I listen to these recordings the more I get to know and appreciate them as a product of talented jazz musicians at the top of their game.
 
Selwyn Lissack left South Africa in 1966, not long after these recordings were made. In 1969 after a three-year sojourn in England he recorded his only album as leader: "Friendship Next of Kin" with Mongezi Feza (trumpet), Harry Miller (bass), Mike Osborn (alto sax), Kenneth Terroade (tenor sax), Earl Freeman (bass and piano), and Louis Moholo (additional percussion). After contributing to another ground-breaking free jazz album in 1970, Lissack quit music, disgusted at feeling ripped off. Read more here. Lissack re-mastered and re-issued "Friendship Next of Kin" in 2006 - look out for it, it is becoming difficult to find again. It is not for nothing that Lissack was rated in a list of a top ten from the free jazz underground.
 
Ever pushing boundaries Lissack teamed up in a five-year collaborative relationship with Salvador Dali in the 1970s to produce ten holographic works of art. Watch a video of Lissack describing what they did here. Visit Selwyn Lissack's own website here.
 
Very close friends at the time, Selwyn and Ian recently re-connected via telephone - Selwyn in Tucson, Arizona, and Ian in Pietermaritzburg, South Africa. I invited Selwyn to share a few words on his recollections of those times.

"In the early 1950’s it was not yet possible, to pursue a Jazz musical career, through the local school curriculum, in South Africa. Some schools could teach the basic classical fundamentals of music. It was difficult to find a teacher who enjoyed and under-stood the intricacy of Jazz music.

"Another set back was, as I had chosen the drums as an instrument, it was nearly impossible to find a space to practice, in a suburban area.

"In order to play without disturbing anyone, I would rent an office space in the city of Cape Town and soundproof the walls and ceiling. After some years of this activity, I was able to find a garage close to my home, where many, many hours were spent in the pursuit of learning how to play, Jazz music.   
 
"Chris, Midge and Winston would usually come to ‘Selwyn’s room’ to rehearse, for the Sunday concerts at the Art Center on the Green Point common. It was at this venue that Ian Huntley recorded a lot of the music that has been preserved to this day.

"Ian, played a very important part in my comprehension of how to approach playing Jazz. I would go to Ian’s flat, to listen to the tapes, after a concert. They say the tapes never lie and this was a perfect way to learn and understand the music of that time.  
 
"I had a choice selection of the best east-coast jazz musicians, to study and learn from.

"Learning to play perfect straight ahead time was hard enough but my ultimate goal was to find a different and original approach to playing time. Like a pulse. This was eventually was achieved, in future recordings, 'Friendship Next of Kin' and the 'Sun Is Coming Up.'

"All the time that was dedicated to ‘Selwyn's Room’ and other urban  recordings, is an important historical documentation, of the legacy of Ian’s love and devotion to the jazz world and the musicians of Cape Town.
"
I would like to thank him, for always being there to catch the moment, making it possible for me to advance and perfect my concept of playing Jazz."

Ian is hoping to make contact with Chris Schilder (Ebrahim Kalil Shihab) again too. In searching the web, I did manage to find this March 2012 video clip of the master still at work! He released a solo piano CD in 2010 and it appears to be already sold out. It is possible download it from itunes here and Amazon here, and for a very reasonable price from Look and Listen here.
 
Experiments At Selwyn's Room - Part One
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If you have not yet listened to the earlier postings from Ian’s archive, you can find them here:

1. Winston Mankunku gem 

2. Love for Free: Hidden South African Jazz Archive revealed

3. The Blue Notes: A Journey of Faith

4. Chris McGregor Quintet Live in Geneva

5. Becoming Free In Cape Town

6. Last Night at the Room At The Top: Dyani and Pukwana

7. Kippie Moeketsi: The album he never made

8. Mankunku and Goldberg Go Free In Cape Town

Monday, 14 January 2013

Mankunku and Goldberg Go Free in Cape Town


Morris Goldberg, Chris Schilder and Midge Pike at the Art Centre, Cape Town  (1966).
Pic by Ian Bruce Huntley
Best wishes to you from us here at Electric Jive for 2013. Before sharing another previously unheard gem from the Ian Bruce Huntley jazz archive, an update on Electric Jive for the year ahead.
 
When comparing burn-out symptoms at the end of 2012, the four of us who run this blog agreed that something had to change. In addition to our own working lives we have other voluntary projects besides Electric Jive that we are also committed to. So, we plan to slow down and publish less frequently this year. We are also more likely to mix up the post format, length, and content. Each contributor will have a two-week slot in which at least one post will be shared. Sometimes we may post more often within that two-week slot than in other times. All of us are committed to keeping this blog going for as long as our energies enable us to.
We kick of this year with an eighth instalment from the Ian Huntley Jazz archive. Ian has often pointed out to me that ‘free jazz’ was a lot more popular amongst South Africa’s 1960s jazz musicians than we realise.
My friend Max Annas reckons that much of the written history of jazz in South Africa has been shaped largely by the evidence of relatively few studio recordings. He agrees with Ian in pointing out that the narrative of jazz history in South Africa has little to say of the enthusiastic embrace by  important musicians of the Free Jazz movement.
There is still quite a bit of ‘free jazz’ to share from Ian’s archive, including a number of private sessions of “Experiments in Selwyn’s Garage”, with Winston Mankunku Ngozi and Chris Schilder  mixing their own musical chemistry. There are also a number of sessions at the Art Centre in particular which are most certainly ‘free’ in character. Perhaps Cape Town audiences were more receptive and just as enthusiastic in wanting to break with convention at that time? 
Today’s session was recorded at The Art Centre on 20th August 1966. While a bop idiom provides  lyrical foundation, and there is a meter that keeps the likes of me interested, huge spaces are created for the musicians to express their own voice in the moment. The opening track “Free Thing” features fairly frequently on Ian’s tapes. The second track “Ole” is the Coltrane composition that featured on the introductory post to this archive. The outstanding third track “Poor” was previously unknown to me and showcases Mankunku and Goldberg taking their instruments to new places. Does anyone recognise "Poor"? Can you tell us more about it?

 In addition to having Morris Goldberg and Winston Mankunku Ngozi to hand on saxophones, there is a double-up in having Midge Pike and Philly Schilder on double-bass. Chris Schilder’s brilliance shines through on piano, while Selwyn Lissack's drumming is clearly happy ‘out there’ in the experiment.

Please – if any of you has anything you could add by way of information or have a reaction to this music, we would very much welcome a few words in the comments section below.
 
Mankunku and Goldberg Go Free in Cape Town
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If you have not yet listened to the earlier postings from Ian’s archive, you can find them here:
 

7. Kippie Moeketsi: The album he never made

Monday, 15 October 2012

Mankunku with Cups and Saucers Nkanuka at Ambassadors Jazz Club, Cape Town (1965)

Ephraim 'Cups and Saucers' Nkanuka - Pic: Ian Bruce Huntley
South Africa’s jazz history makes reference to pioneering tenor saxophonist Cups and Saucers Nkanuka as having had a pivotal influence on a generation of emerging South African jazz musicans in the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s. Along with Martin Mgijima on bass (also in today's recording), these two stalwarts were already professionally active as members of  Chris McGregor's 'Cape Town Five' early in 1961.

Winston Mankunku Ngozi
Pic: Ian Bruce Huntley
Until Ian Bruce Huntley produced this reel-to-reel tape from the recesses of his seemingly bottomless cupboard I did not know there were actual recordings of Nkanuka playing with one of the greats he mentored, Winston Mankunku Ngozi. 

Today’s previously unreleased recording from the Huntley archive reveals an historical saxophone duo treat, supported by a top-class and tight band. Themba Matole (piano), Phakamile  Joya (drums), Martin Mgijima (bass), Winston Mankunku Ngozi (second sax), Robert Sithole (flute).

Both Martin Mgijima and Phakamile Joya had stints with early formations of the Blue Notes, the band playing at 'The Naaz' in Salt River for a fee of  five pounds a week.

Cups and Saucers Nkanuka and Temba Matole were members of the Jazz Ambassadors who competed in the 1962 Cold Castle National Jazz Festival. Mankunku Ngozi played in the Jazz Giants, along with Martin Mgijima (and Tete Mbambisa, Dudu Pukwana, Nik Moyake and Makaya Ntshoko).

In the late 1950s the Ambassadors School of Dancing in Woodstock (its original name) was home to a group of jazz musicians who regularly jammed there - including Chris McGregor, Cups and Saucers Nkanuka, Christopher Columbus Ngcukana, Dave Galloway, and Martin Mgijima. A year after the departure of the Blue Notes, the Ambassadors was still hosting amazing jam sessions with the remaining stalwarts.

Captured live by Ian in 1965 at The Ambassador’s Jazz Club, located on Main Road in Woodstock, Cape Town, this stimulating yet laid-back ninety-minute gem of a set features seven tracks – two of which we would love some help in identifying.

Ian Huntley with Willie Nete, Themba Matola (hat)
Martin Mgijima (pipe), Chris Schilder (seated left)
Winston Mankunku Ngozi (seated right)
Cups and Saucers leads with a languid and sensitive sax which could be the Coleman Hawkins to a 22-year-old Mankunku’s Coltrane influence. Themba Matola’s versatile and bluesy piano steps in regularly and leads from the front, for example on unidentified track three, and then taking ‘Milestones’ on some entertaining tangents. Robert Sithole’s haunting flute features on “Bag’s Groove” and “Whisper Not” – playing solo and in harmony with muted saxophones.

For me, the really stand-out track on an all-round outstanding set is the rendition of “Summertime” – I just can’t get enough of it. It really is something special.
 
Ian and all at Electric Jive are hoping that these posts stimulate further interest, research and writing on these musicians, their legacy and the recordings. We welcome your thoughts and reactions.
Robert Sithole: Pic  Ian Bruce Huntley
If you have not yet listened to the earlier postings from Ian’s archive, you can find them here:
 



Recorded live on stage with a Tandberg 6 reel-to-reel by Ian Bruce Huntley.

Nkanuka and Mankunku At the Ambassadors Jazz Club (1965)
1.     Why Don't I (Sonny Rollins) 14:35
2.     On Green Dolphin Street – 16:43
3.     Unidentified track – (suggestions please) 13:59
4.     Summertime – 12:10
5.     Whisper Not – 11:16
6.     Bag’s Groove – 10:55
7.     Milestones – 10:43

Cups and Saucers Nkanuka – Tenor Saxophone
Winston Mankunku Ngozi – Tenor Saxophone
Themba Matola – Piano
Martin Mgijima – Bass
Parks Joya – Drums
Robert Sithole - Flute

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Friday, 4 May 2012

Hidden Winston Mankunku Ngozi gem found


Something unusually special today. This 1965 recording is of a live performance at the Stables in Loop Street, Cape Town. It is previously unpublished and gives a unique and surprising peep into the live Cape Town jazz scene at the time.

Recordings of saxophone legend Winston Mankunku Ngozi are few and far between.  In today's posting, lasting a little over half an hour, the twenty-two-year-old Mankunku makes magic with Dave Galloway on organ,  Midge Pike on bass and Selwyn Lissack on drums. Think Jimmy Smith in a bop fusion spiced up with Mankunku’s own special flavouring.

Selwyn Lissack went on to become a renowned, but somewhat mysterious international free jazz drummer, who made two recordings and then stopped recording and branched off into a collaborative artistic relationship with Salvador Dali. In 2006 Lissack re-mastered and re-issued his two recordings, and was listed by Thurston Moore as amongst his "Top Ten from the Free Jazz underground".  Read more about Lissack here.

Midge Pike (1967)
Picture by Ian Bruce Huntley
Mankunku would often acknowledge bass player Midge Pike in the same breath as mentioning John Coltrane as being key in shaping his music. In writing the liner notes for Mankunku's Yakhal' Inkomo, Ray Nkwe describes Midge Pike as "South Africa's greatest bassist". Nkwe goes on to quote Mankunku as saying: "Midge was really the man behind my success. He really helped me a lot, I take my hat off to him." Midge left South Africa for the United States in 1973 where he continued to compose and play. He died in September 2008.

Dave Galloway was (is?) a professional musician who played trombone for the Cape Town Philharmonic Orchestra at the time. He was last heard of as working in Vryheid as a music educator for the provincial education department.

There are five tracks in today's share - any help in identifying them would be greatly appreciated. So far, we have:
1. "Taps Miller" (Buck Clayton)
2.?
3. "A Taste of Honey" (Bobby Scott / Ric Marlow)
4. "Well You Needn't" (Thelonius Monk).
5. "How High The Moon" (Hamilton/Lewis)

(Thanks Bob and Howard for your input)

We hope in the coming months to be able to bring you a few more Cape Town jazz gems like this one. We are working on that possibility, so please understand if we cannot say more right now. Tony McGregor does a great job in painting a picture of Mankunku and the sixties Cape Town jazz scene here.
If you have not yet heard Mankunku's recording with the Cliffs, do have a look at this 2009 electric jive posting. And futher posts available here and here.
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